let's talk about the way that a# lot of this kind of came back to light last year.

I mean, way back# last summer, if you all can remember when Elon Musk on his way out was# ruffling feathers, um, with the administration.

He posted on X, uh,# a post that alleged that President Trump was mentioned in the files,# and that's the uh real reason they have not made them public, of course,# um, that really set off a firestorm, and so, you know, is is Congress# sort of thinking about this Steve Stephen in the, you know, with# regard to Musk's post, um, seeing that there were credible claims# to this.

Is that what really made them have to, I mean, hold their# heads to the fire basically and say like, we have to do something# about this.

Yeah, I mean, look, Elon Musk tweets a lot of stuff.# He tweets a lot of stuff that's not true.

I think he was right# about that, and I think it did lead to sort of more awareness about# this, and it got Democrats, I think, in particular to perk up their ears,# but you know, this is this moment, if you go back to to July of last# summer, the Department of Justice said that they were done releasing# these files.

They were sort of we were moving on, and they weren't,# and everybody knew that there was more there.

Pam Bondi had made# promises to release the the the names, um.

The Trump administration# whatever we find out, whatever the ground truth is, it's very clear# that they haven't been straightforward.

They haven't been transparent.# They haven't been honest.

I think that's one of the reasons that# Democrats now say, whatever the truth is, whatever we find out, we can# make an issue of the fact that they haven't been straight with us,# and there are all sorts of, if you go back, you know, if you go back# as long as Sarah's been covering this, there are all sorts of# questions that are raised by things that Trump administration officials# thinks that the president himself, remember he gave an interview in# 2019 when he was asked shortly after Gillaine Maxwell was arrested.# He gave an interview, asked about the arrest, and he said, Well, I# wish, I wish her well.

And then he was asked about that again a# week later and he doubled down on that, said, I wish her well, and you# just think, she was just arrested for sex trafficking.

And you're# saying you wish her well?

what's the story behind that?# Well, what is, I mean, Andrew, what do we know from previous mentions# of President Trump and then Sarah, I'm going to come to you for what# we know that we haven't seen from the DOJ yet.

Well, we could learn# a lot more after Trump is done being president now because the# precedent has been set.

We talk about precedents all the time on Capitol# Hill.

The president has now been set that a former president can# be compelled to testify before a congressional committee, right?# Bill Clinton did that today.

When Democrats are back in the major# ity one day, which they will be at some point, they will be able to# do the same thing to Donald Trump when he is out of office, and those# answers could potentially come out when he is under oath.

Now# he'll fight it legally as much as he possibly can.

But remember with# the Clintons, this came to the point of them being potentially# held in contempt of Congress, which means a referral to the US Attorney# for the District of Columbia.

I mean, so it's a very serious legal# issue, right?

And so the president has been set.

I would not be shocked# at all if Donald Trump is forced to testify at some point in time,# not while he's president, right?

But after he's done being president# in front of Congress under oath and then subject to those same sort# of um, you know, legal requirements like perjury, assuming that he shows# up, of course, and Sarah, there's been reporting by you and others# that DOJ may have withheld files related to President Trump's alleged# conduct with minors in particular.

Um, allegations that the White# House denies What can you tell us about that?

So what we know from# a couple of different avenues.

I reported for the first time today# that 9 people familiar with material that has been provided to the FBI# and to the DOJ in recent years.

That specific material is not among# the files that has been released, and so we, we know that it's a much broader uh potential amount of material that# has been withheld, and specifically some of those documents included# Trump's name and allegations of misconduct.

So it is a much broader# thing than one or two documents that just by chance may have been mishandled or misplaced, um, the,# uh, the New York Times and all their independent journalists,# NPR has done some reporting about a specific allegation against# Donald Trump that involves a minor that was featured.

Actually it's# the first mention on a presentation that the Justice Department, Trump's# own Justice Department put together last summer about notable people# in the file that had allegations.

So what we know from that and# those files are missing.

So what we know about that is that that's not# some offhand.

There's all sorts of tips that go into the FBI.

But# this is something that had clearly been elevated to a high enough level# that even a year ago, the Justice Department is identifying it as# important.

And the reason why all of this is important is because# this wasn't a subpoena.

This was a law that was passed, and most# importantly, it's a law that will continue on even after Trump is# out of office.

So there could be real ramifications, legal ramifications# for withholding this information.

I mean that could be tampering# with evidence.

I think it's, it's a major, major development, and I# think it's something, that's where this story is going.

And briefly,# even if, even if those allegations remain unproven, isn't that, I# mean, would it wouldn't that, you know, spark a firestorm within the# among the base or or do they want to see proof, and even then it's# kind of questionable.

To be honest, I don't really fully understand# what the strategy is here, but I will say a big problem among# Republicans on Capitol Hill.

It's that they, you know, there's what's been# said publicly by the president, but there's also what's been said# privately.

He has called lawmakers to the White House.

He put lawmakers# in the Situation Room to try and lobby them to vote against this.# And so there have been personal assurances, things that have been# said to Republicans that have proven not to be true, and that is putting# his, the very people that are keeping him politically going, are, are now# behind closed doors, really wavering on that support, and that's a really# explosive development.

Tarina, you mentioned Commerce Secretary# Lutnick, and I want to revisit that, um, the commerce secretary, who's# also President Trump's longtime friend, has come out with several# public comments, quite contradictory.

Let's take a listen.

Massage# table in the middle of your house.

How often do you have a massage?# And he says every day, and then he like gets like weirdly close# to me, and he says, and the right kind of massage.

Oh, now my wife# is standing here.

My wife and I decided that I will never be in the# room with that disgusting person ever again.

So I was never in the room with him.

socially for business, or even philanthropy.# If that guy was there, I wasn't going cause he's gross.

I did have# lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation.# My wife was with me, as were my 4 children and nannies.

I had# another couple with, they were there as well, with their children, and# we had lunch on the island.

That is true for an hour and we left# with all of my children, with my nannies and my wife all together.# We were on family vacation.

We were not apart to suggest there# was anything untoward about that in 2012 I don't, I don't recall why we did# it.

Trini, this is arguably one of the most radioactive topics# for the Trump administration.

How is the White House receiving these# comments?

Yeah, that was definitely a real flip flop there, and the# president himself, my colleagues have reported, had a conversation# with Lutnick about this and questioned him on this back and forth and# has expressed how frustrated he is with the Commerce Secretary.

Again,# he wants the story to go away and having a cabinet, his own# cabinet official go back and forth like this is not a good look for the# administration, but the president himself has said that he had never# flown on Epstein's plane.

He's in the flight logs.

I mean, everybody# involved in this has offered those kinds of, I mean, they're,# they're flip flops is generous.

They're just lies.

Like what he did# was lie there, and he was sending emails to Epstein as late as 2018,# maybe later than that, but what's striking about this, and look, I# mean, I've been around here, been in Washington for a long time.

I'm# not new to politicians exaggerating or lying.

It's sort of breathtaking.# The, the, the way in which they're willing to say things that are just# fundamentally demonstrably provably untrue, again and again and again,# and it's this, this sort of moment of desperation and Republicans# are taking notice exactly, and one of the things I wanted to add too# is that this is not the first time it's been a scandal in a Trump# administration.

In the first Trump administration, Alex Acosta was# forced out of his cabinet position after details were revealed about# the the sweetheart plea deal that he gave to Jeffrey Epstein when# he was US Attorney down in Florida at the time.

And and you know, to your# point about, of course, Republicans, more and more are willing to# entertain the idea of bringing Howard Lutnick under oath, for example.# Congresswoman Nancy Mace, for example, who is running for governor in South# Carolina would definitely benefit from an endorsement from Donald# Trump is still sticking her neck out on this issue and saying, saying# things that she knows will rattle the president and his inner circle.# Unfortunately we're running out of time, but of course we want to# stress that in all of this we have to remember the survivors, um, most# importantly um, out of this whole entire crisis.

So we're gonna have# to leave it there.

Thank you so much to our guests for joining me# and thank you at home for watching